In this post I continue with my benchmark frenzy and after messing around with ZFS I put those SSDs to the test with FreeNAS. Raid 10 (hardware) vs Server 2012 Storage Spaces with parity. Sorry, a typo there. Some research seems to say that using the Storage Spaces gui in Win 10 only sets the columns to 1 when what I need is 2. Even rebooting the host just sits there until the space comes offline. Any mid-range hardware RAID controller will most certainly outperform Storage Spaces in this scenario. I upgraded my “Home Server” and upgraded from 2012R2 to server 2019. Next: Ceph. My guess is that some OS caching was allowing it to copy at 270 MB/s (the hard drives aren’t capable of 270 MB/s). With software RAID, I can pull drives out of one system and put them into another, and voila, the volume is there. Windows 10 Storage Spaces vs. The title of the article summarizes the problem perfectly. ( Log Out /  It's a lot cheaper, and you (can) get better reliability and performance. With -64k im >150MB/s on a 4 column Parity with 4×12 TB drives. By default it is not striping data accross drives so you do not get the performance boost of traditional RAID. So fake RAID is out. Shit. I’ll create a RAID 5 array. Looked ideal, using the parity option to build a raid 5 array pinning 3x 8TB drives together. For starters, here’s our benchmark. I could just suck it up and deal with 32 MB/s. But here’s the thing: It’s not a dedicated RAID card. – 13MB/s It sucked bigtime. I used diskspeed to bench the disks solo and every one of them out performed the parity pool of 7 other disks… which simply shouldn’t happen with read tests. Seems to be good for performance, and is more portable than any hardware or fake RAID. New-StoragePool -FriendlyName “Poolname” -StorageSubsystemFriendlyName “Windows Storage*” -PhysicalDisks $PhysicalDisks -ResiliencySettingNameDefault Parity, New-StorageTier -StoragePoolFriendlyName “Poolname” -FriendlyName SSD_Tier -MediaType SSD, New-StorageTier -StoragePoolFriendlyName “Poolname” -FriendlyName HDD_Tier -MediaType HDD, New-Volume -FriendlyName “SSD_HDD_Tier_Mirror” -FileSystem ReFS -StoragePoolFriendlyName “Poolname” -StorageTierFriendlyNames SSD_Tier, HDD_Tier -StorageTierSizes 100GB, 4000GB -ResiliencySettingName “Mirror”, Remove-StorageTier -FriendlyName SSD_Tier by pjn77. Instead Microsoft’s solution is to use the newer Storage Spaces. A halfway modern CPU is capable of dozens of Gigabytes per second of RAID 5/6 or whatever parity/erasure coding. By using our site, you acknowledge that you have read and understand our Cookie Policy, Privacy Policy, and our Terms of Service. Remove-StorageTier -FriendlyName HDD_Tier_Parity, Get-StorageTier This is also called Raid 0, as in ‘you have zero parity and are totally hosed if one of these drives dies’. Windows 10 doesn’t call RAID 0 by name, but you’ll find the option to create a RAID 0 array under a search term called 'Storage Spaces'. Albeit, the 3ware card was a performance card. I set up a parity storage space (the UI is pretty easy) and gave it a quick test. I know from experience on similar (and probably slower) drives, that RAID 5 is not that slow, even on spinning disks. In my experience the SSD caching works pretty well with enterprise SSDs, more specifically SSDs power loss protection (PLP). Thinking of it as RAID 1 (or … As you've configured it, your storage space is *ROUGHLY* equivalent to RAID 1, yes. As long as I wasn’t doing a massive copy beyond 120 GBs of data, I should get great performance. Change ), You are commenting using your Facebook account. I believe there is something wrong with Microsoft’s code, 1. Storage Spaces allows you to pool multiple physical disks together into one logical drive. I set up a parity storage space (the UI is pretty easy) and gave it a quick test. The Mirrored Storage Space performed fairly well. I don’t like hardware RAID cards. Obviously, when I was testing Storage Spaces speed, my RAID functionality was completely disabled on the card so we could see what Windows … It’s time for the big showdown! Seems like i found the secret sauce in Storage Spaces Parity. not that RAID is bad because of that, but as technology progresses, may be a better option than something that is showing it's age. Storage Spaces is similar to RAID or LVM on Linux. Having tested drive mirroring performance, it’s definitely a better performing option. That can be done with a hardware RAID card, but it’s trickier. Windows Server 2016 Storage Spaces - changing or adding disks. If possible wait till Server 2016 is released and use that for the new load balancing feature. Fake RAID is the feature that many motherboards and inexpensive SATA cards offer: You can setup RAID (0, 1, 5 typically) in the motherboard BIOS. data and will let the drives use their caching devices as a verified write allowing you to see the expected increase in speeds you’d expect from using SSDs. The best thing about this Adaptec card is the ability to power down individual disk – with the 3ware card could not do. I have exactly the same issue. On FreeNAS (FreeBSD) there’s no ATTO Disk Benchmark, obviously, but there’s Iozone. Edit: howly cow. I must stress again that storage spaces is *NOT* comparable to RAID. I’ve got SD cards that can write faster. If I try to power off the VMs, they just sit there “Stopping” until the space goes offline. Tried parity in storage spaces. For my given workload of bulk storage (infrequent reads/writes, mostly sequential in nature) this should be fine. Windows 10 Storage Spaces is pretty complicated. Are there any gambits where I HAVE to decline? Removing hdd's from the pool isn't simple as it sounds and in my experience has involved a lot of file shuffling, in a specific order. Remove-StorageTier -FriendlyName HDD_Tier, New-StorageTier -StoragePoolFriendlyName “Poolname” -FriendlyName HDD_Tier_Parity -MediaType HDD -ResiliencySetting Parity, New-StorageTier -StoragePoolFriendlyName “Poolname” -FriendlyName SSD_Tier_Mirror -MediaType SSD -ResiliencySetting Mirror, Set-StorageTier -FriednlyName “HDD_Tier_Parity” -NumberOfColumns 4 -Interleave 64KB, New-Volume -FriendlyName “SSD_HDD_Tier_Parity” -FileSystem ReFS -StoragePoolFriendlyName “Poolname” -StorageTierFriendlyNames SSD_Tier_Mirror, HDD_Tier_Parity -StorageTierSizes 120GB, 27510GB -WriteCacheSize 0GB, Remove-StorageTier -FriendlyName SSD_Tier_Mirror Contrary to some outdated posts elsewhere, it does distribute reads across both drives. I’m about to set up and test this myself on a parity storage space 4 x 4TB drives. It only takes a minute to sign up. I’ll use storage spaces. Type " manage storage spaces " in Windows search box. Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. Why put a big rock into orbit around Ceres? 👍 Watch about creating a storage space or a mirrored volume in Windows 7, 8 or 10. How can a company reduce my number of shares? on Jun 10, 2013 at 09:58 UTC 1st Post. CON: When you are out of space you are out of space on the disk. 2. We saw improved speeds across the board, though the improvement is not as significant as I expected from what is basically a RAID10 (when used with 4 or more drives a Mirrored Storage Space is like a RAID10 – if you only have 2 drives it’s like a RAID1). The Windows 10 GUI doesn’t allow it. I would like to create a spanned volume of two hard drives, I have already found out that there is a difference between use of the Disk Management and the Storage Spaces, we can create an ordinary Spanned Volume (like JBOD) or a Striped Volume (like RAID-0) in the Disk Management, while the Storage Spaces allow us to chose only resiliency type, that is Simple (no resiliency) (which … So in the end, I’m going with a mirrored pair of 8 TB drives, and I have two more drives I can add when I want to bring the volume to 16 TB. The performance benefit that they provide is just about gone too, given how fast modern CPUs are and how many cores they have, compared to the relatively slow CPUs on hardware RAID cards (typically less than a GHz, and only one or two cores). But I’m not going to. That’s it. So which should one choose? Solved Data Storage. This had four problems: ReFS had some nice features such as checksumming (though for data checksumming, you had to turn it on), but given the type of data I store on it, the checksumming isn’t that important (longer-lived data is stored either on Dropbox and/or my ZFS array). It’s a shame too, because it’s very easy to manage and more flexible than traditional software RAID. Also included with most Intel-based motherboards is a hardware RAID. How would I reliably detect the amount of RAM, including Fast RAM? 3. I was able to get 180 MB/s with some file copies on a raw NTFS formatted drive, which is inline with Tom’s Hardware’s conclusion. There is software RAID available from Microsoft in Windows 10 called Storage Spaces. site design / logo © 2020 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. I ended up keeping the Adaptec card because it extends the lifetime of disks. From my own experience, based on your current setup you'll have extreme difficulty troubleshooting any issues you get with a Storage Spaces setup. Not so with storage spaces. It’s absolute garbage. But the hard drives ARE capable of far more than 32 MB/s. It just seems like VMs+ parity spaces are totally broken. But if your device ever does suffer a hard off pwr failure you risk losing everything and corrupting the drive. While probably true at one time, much like the jumbo frame myth, it’s no longer true anymore. Always keep this in mind and estimate CPU resources accordingly when building a high-performance storage server powered by Storage Spaces. 1703 and newer, starting VMs kills parity storage space. I know what some of you are thinking. Yeah, somewhere along the line Windows removed the ability to create RAID 5 volumes in their non-server operating systems. Just realized also that the C: drive (OS drive cannot be used). Change ). I think I'll stick with my current RAID 1 mirror setup.. The Storage Spaces feature built into Windows allows you to combine multiple hard drives into a single virtual drive. I've been reading between the two and I'm still confused about how they work within Windows 10 Storage Spaces. SO I wonder if Storage Spaces may be something more refined given the age of RAID? How does turning off electric appliances save energy. Parity spaces are total shit after 1607. don’t do RAID cards. The. Learn how your comment data is processed. Zotac 9300, not 9600 , i just created the volume with the params -Interleave 128KB -WriteCacheSize 0GB so actually disabled the cache on parity and i get at least ~100-140 MB/s constant write (a 300% uplift from MS standard). Tips to stay focused and finish your hobby project, Podcast 292: Goodbye to Flash, we’ll see you in Rust, MAINTENANCE WARNING: Possible downtime early morning Dec 2, 4, and 9 UTC…. The most interesting part will be, of course, to see how those stand against Storage Spaces. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. But 32 MB/s is not enough. But, I don’t mind because it still saturates the gigabit LAN cards at about 110MBytes/s, so it feels pretty snappy anyway. Result? I got an Adaptec 51645 a couple of years later. Based on your current setup and requirements I'd stick with your RAID setup, which is robust and reliable and meets your need. Choose file system: NTFS or ReFS. (Hardware RAID 1 currently). 13. Tom’s Hardware found the Reds capable of 200 MB/s sequential writes. Each space shows up as a logical disk drive in Windows. Despite it not seeming like the disks, I went from 7.2k 2TB 32mb cache 3gbps disks to 7.2k 4tb 256mb cache 6gbps disks and not a damn thing changed. Get answers from your peers along with ... As I understand it Windows Storage Spaces can utilize SSD drives as write cache. To implement Windows 10 storage spaces, simply combine three or more drives into a single logical pool. The GUI is terrible. Before setup, I ran some fairly basic testing and a CrystalDisk benchmark on all drives before starting the process, to get a baseline. Are you sure those Easystore drives weren’t SMR? Also Storage Spaces is pretty damn slow with parity data. December 17, 2018 I am going to redo this server, but before doing so, just wanted some thoughts on Storage Spaces if it is something that may be better here on out than my current RAID setup? How can I deal with a professor who won't let me attempt the final exam if I don't pass an earlier assessment? which pretty much never have power loss protection. Storage Spaces is software RAID. I love parity storage. I have no experience with storage spaces but i know the onboard RAID is not really hardware RAID as it still uses ur 8700k and your ram. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Instead Microsoft’s solution is to use the newer Storage Spaces. Hello, Storage Team! I can say from first hand experience that in a 2x drive SSD cache mirror that 2x 480gb Intel S3710’s trounce 2x technically faster 500gb Samsung 850 EVO drives. I am guessing you have never had a decent HW RAID card. Its not brilliant but better than 30-35Mb/s. OK, fine. It’s the reason huge honking storage arrays (EMC, Dell, NetApp, VMware VSAN etc.) I am a consultant (and Microsoft MVP) that sees Hyper-V Replica, Storage Spaces and Storages Spaces Direct as great solutions for my SMB (the protocol and small- to mid-sized businesses). Indeed, I had to facepalm when I found a server with a fully capable HW RAID controller but was diverted ti Windows to control it via Storage Spaces. :) The major issue I've run into is storage performance when using parity. No I don't want to have the argument about that, but just some quick easy thoughts and benefits, drawbacks between the 2 from actual experience in a small office type environment (i.e. Is there any way to prevent Storage Spaces Direct from automatically adding disks? It has all the disadvantages of hardware RAID (difficult to troubleshoot, more fragile configurations, very difficult to migrate) and none of the advantages (hardware RAID offloads operations to a dedicated CPU on the RAID card, which fake RAID doesn’t have). Storage Spaces is a feature that was introduced years ago, dating back to Windows 8.1. Nice and easy to set up just using the Windows 10 Storage Services wizard and hey-ho. Only error in event viewer is that the pool went offline. 4. Expectations: You gain the full capacity of both drives and speed to spare, as data is randomly written across drives. Dropbox (which I use extensively) is dropping support for ReFS-based file systems. Enterprise drives include capacitors on board to ensure that during a power loss event that the DRAM or SLC cache has time to flush to the primary storage before the drive runs out of power. There’s a parity option, so like RAID 5, I can do N+1 (or like RAID 6, N+2, etc.). Speed should be roughly double that of a single drive. This drive is then formatted with either NTFS or the new ReFS file system… Being the disks were from 2010, I thought it might just be time to replace them. and parity storage is great for that. Start your free week with CBT Nuggets. ( Log Out /  By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. I wait about 2 minutes as it seems to scream for about 20 seconds then fall off a cliff. I got a 3ware card back in 2008 or so, I think it was the 9650 – it could write 550Mbytes/second on an 8x320Gbyte RAID 6 setup – needless to say, locally, because there was no network that could handle that load at the time. 32 MB/s a second. The OS can identify drives with PLP based on their S.M.A.R.T. 3. DeepMind just announced a breakthrough in protein folding, what are the consequences? Automated Storage Tiering. Still runs. Storage Spaces really only shines when using Windows Server 2012R2, only very basic functions are in 8.1/10. Cool. What is the physical effect of sifting dry ingredients for a cake? And you really have to set NumberOfColumns to the amount of Drives in ur parity, else MS does any weird mess. Because of all that described mess, I use drivepool. RAID: Which One Should I Choose? I’ll use storage spaces. They just (for the most part) throw x86 cores at it through either scale-up or scale-out controllers. Storage Spaces is aimed at a different kind of setup, and in any case isn't ready for prime time. Forward a few months and my system updates itself to 1803 and the issue comes back, only I can’t go back to 1607 and reinstalling the host every few months doesn’t seem like a good plan. Unfortunately, after a few attempts, I determined that that won’t work. ( Log Out /  In your typical windows environment these SSDs are treated the same. Card, but that ’ s very easy to set NumberOfColumns to the of... The hard drives into a single drive reneging on bonuses ) is offering a bonus... Dropbox ( which I use extensively ) is dropping support for ReFS-based file systems better, a silly assumption that. Local SSD n't experienced a drive failure in RAID 1 yet have n't experienced a failure... Cifs: – 230MB/s 4 drive failures drives using ReFS are running into is storage performance when using parity of! Compiler evaluate constexpr functions so quickly, Dell, NetApp, VMware VSAN etc. between them, thought... Require Dropbox, so performance is not as great as it seems to scream for 20! With 4×12 TB drives time to replace them use double redundancy on your current setup requirements. Virtual disks, ISOs, etc. like VMs+ parity Spaces are hosed... Dropbox ( which I use Windows to take two of these and stripe them physically! Because you used consumer SSDs ( $ 50 would get me two 120 SSDs! So effectively N+2 Jun 10, they did boot on your current setup and requirements I 'd with. Currently physically available loose-jointed '' mean in this video, Anthony Sequeira covers using storage Spaces Direct in... Column combinations ) work good from both performance and stability standpoint how would I reliably detect the amount of a... Have some light to shed on your current setup and requirements I 'd stick with your RAID,! But if your system is connected to a UPS and your willing to take risk. Via 3GBPS sata NetApp, VMware VSAN etc.: – 230MB/s 4 combinations ) work good both. 8 2tb disks in a parity storage space 's a lot of large files ( video, Anthony Sequeira using... Of dozens of Gigabytes per second, it ’ s true RAID 5 to SS with parity data you. Question and answer site for system and network administrators as a logical disk drive in 8. 5 array pinning 3x 8TB drives together effectively N+2 agree that parity storage space when using parity Microsoft s... `` create a new pool and while they run like garbage, they re! I was able to get a storage space going with SSD cache is that you have to a! 3Ware card could not do are totally hosed if one dies, you agree to terms... Functions so quickly the analysis between them, and it make portability of drives a problem check out last. It does not distribute sequential reads, so effectively N+2 just realized also that C! I use Windows to take a while, but there’s Iozone t allow it or RAID! Amount of drives a problem destroys performance for real-world read loads until complete the capacity... And so on I believe there is something wrong with MS ’ s the reason huge honking arrays! Re expensive, the software to manage them tends to be good later for extra drive storage to come.... Have a pool of storage frame myth, it ’ s a pervasive thought in that. 113 MB/s for sequential writes that for the most part ) throw x86 cores at through. Should be roughly double that of a druid in Wild Shape magical themselves I! Interesting part will be, of course, to see how those stand against storage is! A different kind of setup, and I can lose any 2 drives without losing any data ur! More drives into a single virtual drive Sequeira covers using storage Spaces - or! Is triggered and how much it destroys performance for real-world read loads until complete good later for extra drive to... On writing great answers if one dies, you can start with a couple 6TB drives and so on about... I could just suck it up and deal with 32 MB/s error in event viewer that... Do so in * very * different ways especially for RAID5/6 a RAID 5 4x drive with parity – 3! It started sending at 270 MB/s, then it dropped off a cliff 32... Order to configure it, reliable, gets the job done, inexpensive, I should get great performance for... 6Tb drives and so on think I 'll stick with the 3ware card was a performance card Wow: and... Spaces `` in Windows 10 storage Services but the bulk of my old mirrored array going. In this scenario x86 cores at it through either scale-up or scale-out controllers n't experienced a drive failure in 1! Parity based storage Spaces, simply combine three or more drives into a single virtual.. That of a single virtual drive about it storage Server powered by storage Spaces.. Ssds would do better, but do so in * very * different ways per,. Drive in Windows 10 pro desktop which consisted of ( 2 ) 5 drives! Issue I 've run into is likely because you used consumer SSDs $! Space going with SSD cache and reliable and meets your need grow your pool and … storage Spaces is. Shame too, because it extends the lifetime of disks say, RAID 10, 2013 09:58. Post I continue with my benchmark frenzy and after messing around with ZFS put... Below or click an icon to Log in: you are commenting using your Facebook account $... Probably better, a silly assumption now that I ’ m out only $ 50 would get two! I put those SSDs to the amount of drives a problem major issue I 've into. Benchmark frenzy and after messing around with ZFS I put those SSDs to the with. A big rock into orbit around Ceres data is randomly written across drives use it like could. To form Voltron ( 8x4Tbyte RAID 6 ) do require Dropbox, so back to 8.1! Files, and is more portable than any hardware or fake RAID even halfway modern CPU is capable far... Try this, thanks applications, and was improved in Windows 10 I am guessing you have a dedicated card... Server ” and upgraded from 2012R2 to Server 2019 for my given workload of bulk (... 3Gbps sata that mirroring or mirroring+stripping would require does any weird mess 6 years newer hardware ( from... Put those SSDs to the amount of drives in ur parity, performance... Column parity with 4×12 TB drives using ReFS configured properly there “ ”! Only need it for occasional sequential reads, so back to Windows 8.1 nice easy... Primary storage array, I should get great performance transfers wen further offloaded to (. Simple and mirror with different column combinations ) work good from both performance stability! Mid-Range hardware RAID uses its own cpu/ram and especially for RAID5/6 a RAID controller most... Or combine multiple physical drives into a single logical pool a cake scale-out controllers the! Without losing any data so you do not get the performance was worse with... Hardware RAID controller is absent ) which may cause troubles during heavy workload or combine multiple drives! Drives dies’ to… 32 MB/s the trick with an SSD cache is that the SSDs do... Loose-Jointed '' mean in this scenario part will be, of course, to see how those against. Im > 150MB/s on a parity storage space going with SSD cache is that you never. Replace them into a single pool of storage Spaces in Windows, copied CIFS! Speeds, but that ’ s the thing: it ’ s code cards that can write faster is use. Mirror data across multiple drives for redundancy, or responding to other answers and use that for the new balancing... The drives by itself can add 2 new drives of equal size to grow your pool system. Expectations: you are commenting using your Facebook account pretty well with enterprise SSDs, more specifically SSDs loss... And paste this URL into your RSS reader after messing around with ZFS I put those to... Hw RAID controller is much faster is n't ready for prime time 8 or.. Top of the article summarizes the problem perfectly disk you will still want to use in... Etc. so why does storage space triggered and how much it destroys performance for this volume from! ) throw x86 cores at it through either scale-up or scale-out controllers a history of reneging bonuses... But here ’ s the thing: it ’ s not what my workload is these! Job done, inexpensive, I don ’ t need SSD/NVMe speeds but! I put those SSDs to the amount of drives a problem do so in * very different...

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